• Guest, we are doing a new map (refresh) for Herocraft. Gather your friends and get ready! Coming next Friday, 06/28/24 @ 7PM CT play.hc.to
    Read up on the guides and new systems! Here.
    View the LIVE Map here @ hc.to/map
    Stuck or have a problem? use "/pe create" to to open a ticket with staff (There are some known issues and other hotfixes we will be pushing asap)
  • Guest, Make sure to use our LAUNCHER! Read more here!

Wizard Warm Ups?

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Soooo, whyyyy was Wizard nerfed? I don't consider this a buff.. I can't kill anyone with these new ridiculous casting times.. 5 seconds with whatever the cool down is for the same damage as before? They just run up and interrupt the casting before I can get anything worth while off. I have a hard enough time as it is with warriors. Now, I have absolutely nothing on them. Try to be a wizard and fight anything with armour above chainmail, you'll lose. Even before these casting times. Now with them, I can't even kill mobs effectively.

If your going to keep the cool down and give me a warm up, you'd better give me a hell of a buff for damage or you just ruined casters.

Yes @Kainzo , this is a "sky falling" attitude.. :S I spent a LOT of time getting master Wizard.. Only to have my class bitchslapped.
 
S

ShizzDawgg

Yeah I agree.
I hate sounding like a bitch because I am, but I think the main combat classes that should be focused on atm are warriors. NONE of the caster classes are op, and it's pointless implementations such as these that make pvp even more unbalanced.
 

qNickp

TNT
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Why were wizards nerfed? If anything Paladins have diamond armor, high hp and enchantments a bunch of skills. Before the warm up is even over for a wizard they can interrupt it. Warriors are the one who need to be nerfed.. 8 guys, few of them spec'd can barley take down one dread knight, maybe even a paladin.
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Yeah, consume is now 30 second cooldown for an extra 10 mana? Geeze. I spent hours and hours getting this class to it's mastery... Roughly 55. I raced to get it done quickly to PVP harshly towards the lesser levels while I raid the new towns. When chasing a target they just get away because while casting, I get slowed from the warmup. The only attack I can use that's worth while is fireball and half the warriors that pvp have fire resistant armour. That's assuming you can catch them to begin with and aren't lagging bad enough to accurately hit them. What if the warrior is coming at me? I can't even move to dodge, because I get slowed. Are you trying to make Wizards/ all Caster classes dependant on other players? because if so, the warmups don't even matter, the damage can't kill anything with armour before the target slaughters you, before the casting times were even implemented... >.< .

I don't want to bitch, but there was a reason I leveled up fast. So I could stun enemy town development and get easy goods during the early era of the map. Every day enemies level up and make it harder and harder to solo raid. Now you've made it impossible to. I feel like you've stripped me of my time/ dedication put into this class.

Do I have to go warrior and rape everbody for you to nerf that class? >.>
 

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero
Staff member
Founder
Adventure Team
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Location
The 7th Circle of Heaven
Constructive feedback please

We're adding in some pretty heavy features to most of the caster/healer abilities.
per-level increase of RANGE
per-level REDUCTION of mana cost
per-level decrease of COOL-DOWN
per-level increase of DAMAGE (not working)


"I pvp'd quickly to kill harshly against lower levels" <-- lol
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Constructive feedback please

We're adding in some pretty heavy features to most of the caster/healer abilities.
per-level increase of RANGE
per-level REDUCTION of mana cost
per-level decrease of COOL-DOWN
per-level increase of DAMAGE (not working)


"I pvp'd quickly to kill harshly against lower levels" <-- lol

Drunkin' rage slurs right there :cool: typed it in a rush xD

Okay, you requested constructive comments.. Connnstructivvve. Being a Level 55 Wizard this is how I personally see Wizards as they are now and what I would like for them to have in order for them to be balanced.

First things first, if your going to have warm up times on a Wizard, you can't have a slowing effect that cuts you out of running or narrows your view while casting. It either allows the enemy to run out of range during your 5 second casting time OR it allows them to damage you, interrupting your cast. Once they get in close, the only damaging move your allowing is fireball.

1. Fireball - as a whole is great, decent damage, shoots fast.. It's only flaw is lagg, which is limited by your own personal computer usually. So right now, I honestly don't think it needs to be changed. UNLESS - There was a way to change the burning aspect of the fireball to deal decent damage on warriors solely on armour. Meaning, a dragoon would take a fireball as it normally would, but the excess fire (burning effect) would decently effect its armour deduction, not it's health. This isn't a huge change, but getting rid of the armour is the core idea behind this suggestion. Because it is a casters worst enemy. You seriously can't take an armoured class on unless your fighting an idiot with a black screen at 1 fps.

2. Consume - Consume is cool, but at 4 second cool down gaining 10 mana is pointless; for the fact that bones are to EASY to acquire. Meaning you basically will always have 10 regain every 4 seconds, always. This skill could be taken out and replaced with a shorter "Wisdom". 30% Mana regain for lets say 2 minutes (160 seconds), rather then 300 and a 160 seconds cool down. The cool down AND warm up would be perfect for making it not OP. There needs to be a decent cool down on wisdom.

3. Telekinesis - Never used it and probably never will. It's not unless but it's not a skill I will ever be required to use. I really think it should be replaced. A skill I've been thinking of is the ability to cast a spell on the target making their cool down times 5 seconds longer then what they are supposed to be for 10 seconds. Call it what you will, but this would be a great skill.

4. Replenish - Amazing, saves my ass every time. This is necessary to keep me in the game, without it Wizards can't play. It's a Wizards most useful skill.

5. Root - I HATE root. It's too easy to use and is too helpful really. I know that sounds crazy but it almost makes Wizard OP. It shouldn't be on any class. In it's place an Ice move that slows the target should be implemented. It's not fair if you can just stop a player from moving when ever you wish. An Ice bolt, that looks like fireball should be in it's place. I know a lot of people won't agree with me because they love root, but it isn't fair. Especially when Wizards have a hard hitting bolt to deal while you just sit there. Nerf it!

6. Port/ Group TP - Perfect.

7. Bolt - Wizards third most useful skill, without bolt fights take a very long time. The longer the time it takes to kill someone or get away, the chance of dying is exponentially increased. Wizards are SQUISHY, and as such need to have at least one nuke. Which is what Bolt should be. A fast, hard hitting finisher. I don't think it should be spammed or capable of being spammed but nor do I think a casting time should be on it. I think a 90 minute cool down for 50 damage, 10 block radius should be the power of the attack. 50% Mana so that Wizards need to think twice about using it. This would NOT be OP for the fact that it is :
A) Taking a large amount of Mana that wizards need to surive, there lifeline. Take any more then 50, then it's a suicide attack and will never be used because the mana you need to keep yourself alive will just be gone.
B) has a big cool down, so they can only use it once and rarely twice in a fight due to a wizards squishiness and
C) because it still won't do the desired effect of a bolt to an armoured player. Though it will have the desired effect on everyone and anyone else.

8. Manashield - Useless. I've tried by it never saves me. It just sucks my Mana. Get rid of it and replace it with a different attack; as Wizards should have many. Damage is the name of the game with Wizards. Although, if you wish to help my survival through tricks, confuse would be the best idea. I would rather them still have a chance of getting me. Again, root is an abomination and is OP as hell.

9. Blink - Wizards second most useful skill. I love it as it is. It helps me get away when needed (sometimes), sucks a decent amount of mana so I can't spam it forever and has a common casting item. But, I think that perhaps it should be nerfed in the way that every time you use it consecutively it goes 1 block shorter distance. Don't make it to easy to get away. I'm not sure how you'd do it but I'm sure you'd agree with me.

10. Pulse - You seem insistant on giving AOE's a warm up time. If so, to make it worth using, I believe it should have an added Burn/Fire effect or Poison. 20 Mana and a 20 second cool down is to high of a cost along with a warm up. It's simply not worth it on it's own. Now, 20 damage with an added effect would be much better. I think I'd use it more if I could use Pulse, it hit everything within a 6 (not 9, to OP) block radius and have them catch fire for 10 seconds taking an additional 10 HP off the original 20 from the pulse. This would help groups but makes it so that there is much risk getting in that close to many enemies.

11. Megabolt - Nothing is needed accept an increase in damage. 10 more and your set. It takes a LOT of Mana, you need to make it worth using other then for the fancy light show. Casting time on AOE/ buffs are needed to be fair I think.

Wizards are "squishy" which is why I suggested and noted the things I did above. The main thing I want to get accross is the fact that right now armour gives a wizard no chance. Not 1 chance. Without exaggeration. I think it should be used as the baseline for deciding the power of attacks as right now, half the server is going warrior for the fact that at the moment they are so difficult to kill. I think dirrect target to target attacks shouldn't have a casting time, but AOE and Buffs should. I need bolt/ fireball to kill enemies. I can't rely on just fireball. As it stands I can only fight with fireball because the casting time either breaks on self damage or is to slow to cast when in pursuit of others. Basically I'm saying Bolt is useless unless I'm in a party; which shouldn't be so because it's a one on one attack.

Hoes are silly and worth nothing when you think about it. Your dead if he is close enough for you to use a hoe. Either a buff to a hoe, "soul fire" or elimination of it altogether is the logical decision concerning them.

Honestly, I reeeeeally want to say to give Wizards force push. Most people will argue it, but for 45 Mana it could be the move that either makes or breaks a Wizard in a fight. You see in countless movies Wizards and such having force like powers. Think about it, it wouldn't even be OP because of the mana cost. Mana costs on Wizards mean a hell of a lot more then on a melee class. 45 is a heavy price, but its high enough to keep you from using it to much.

Anyway, Kainzo. There, there is your constructive feedback. Sorry for the panic earlier. Honestly, I was just agitated that my class could be useless after all the effort I put into mastering it as fast as I could. Hope this helps and you use some of these suggestions.
 

Zihara

Obsidian
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Location
Canada
10. Pulse - You seem insistant on giving AOE's a warm up time. If so, to make it worth using, I believe it should have an added Burn/Fire effect or Poison. 20 Mana and a 20 second cool down is to high of a cost along with a warm up. It's simply not worth it on it's own. Now, 20 damage with an added effect would be much better. I think I'd use it more if I could use Pulse, it hit everything within a 6 (not 9, to OP) block radius and have them catch fire for 10 seconds taking an additional 10 HP off the original 20 from the pulse. This would help groups but makes it so that there is much risk getting in that close to many enemies.

I agree with everything. Although if there was to be an added effect to pulse, I wouldn't make it it Fire or Poison. I would make it a Slow effect for 2 seconds. When I think of someone getting pulsed, I imagine them getting hurt and stunned. If the Slow effect could be paired with the Portal effect that confuse has, it would be perfect.
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
My own take on each skill. I basically agree with everything you posted, Hollow, but there's some variation.

Fireball- fire damage drains armor durability (across the board, not Wizard-specific).
Consume- could use alteration, initiating a mana-regen seems to be the way to go.
Telekinesis- very rarely useful, if ever. Nix it?
Replenish- Very useful. If individual classes had different mana limits Replenish could be done away with.
Root- Don't really like it as a standalone skill. Could see more use as short-duration secondary effects for other skills. Replacing with a Slow effect sounds good.
Bolt- Imo, should be a proper finisher: strong, no warm-up, long cooldown.
Manashield- I'd be fine if it left. Replacement defensive skill that inflicts confuse or another debuff sounds great.
Blink- Could lose potency upon consecutive use, I like that idea.
Pulse- Should be reasonably potent if given a warm-up. Slow/Confuse effects sound good, would work well for Bards too.
Megabolt- Etymology: "really big" "Bolt". It's fine if it doesn't deal as much as normal Bolt, but I don't like the sound of warm-ups on lightning skills at all.
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
My own take on each skill. I basically agree with everything you posted, Hollow, but there's some variation.

Fireball- fire damage drains armor durability (across the board, not Wizard-specific).
Consume- could use alteration, initiating a mana-regen seems to be the way to go.
Telekinesis- very rarely useful, if ever. Nix it?
Replenish- Very useful. If individual classes had different mana limits Replenish could be done away with.
Root- Don't really like it as a standalone skill. Could see more use as short-duration secondary effects for other skills. Replacing with a Slow effect sounds good.
Bolt- Imo, should be a proper finisher: strong, no warm-up, long cooldown.
Manashield- I'd be fine if it left. Replacement defensive skill that inflicts confuse or another debuff sounds great.
Blink- Could lose potency upon consecutive use, I like that idea.
Pulse- Should be reasonably potent if given a warm-up. Slow/Confuse effects sound good, would work well for Bards too.
Megabolt- Etymology: "really big" "Bolt". It's fine if it doesn't deal as much as normal Bolt, but I don't like the sound of warm-ups on lightning skills at all.

Hmmm what did you mean with replenish? We couldn't fight without it. At least wizards couldn't. We depend on it without question. Removing it is a bad idea.
 

Zihara

Obsidian
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Location
Canada
Also, as an additional skill, or an alternative to root, they could have Forcepush. :) it would be a great skill to try out with wizards and would mesh well with the others.
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Yes! Something not over powered that could slow the target instead of just stopping them. Wizards in many movies/ video games have this sort of power. It would work great!
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
Hmmm what did you mean with replenish? We couldn't fight without it. At least wizards couldn't. We depend on it without question. Removing it is a bad idea.
If each class had mana like they had HP (varying quantities instead of everybody has 100), Wizards could simply have a high mana cap instead of needing a skill that brings it back to full.
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Well, I'm not so sure that would be a great idea. Once you had to regain mana it would take forever. Rendering you useless. Instead of being able to have full every 2 minutes.
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
It may not be as convenient, but with a high cap and a mana-regen for Consume it ought to be fine.

Still, totally hypothetical. Moreso than the other stuff on this page. :p
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
The set-up we suggested would be perfect. May need a few more buffs here and there, but all in all it would work out just fine.
 

Cracksz

Stone
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
The wizard is 100% reliant on abilities to win fights it is not an autoattacker - how can it? minimal hp and at best a 5 damage dealin hoe. If you're close enough for auto attacks you're doing it wrong. If you plan on add in a warm up to bolt and megabolt you make already underpowered aoe attacks completely useless.

Megabolt and pulse have a range of 5 and 9 blocks respectively. It takes 1 to 2 seconds to move that far in sprint away making wizard's two "ulitimate" skills which do less damage than their level 1 skill anway even moreso redundant. to use it you have to risk being in auto attack range which spells death when you get slowed to cast it and people just take 2 steps out of the way then come back and eat you.

Its magic these things are instant you never see lightening waiting to strike I see no reason to nerf wizard it already has the least hp of all the spec'd classes and relies solely on abilities and mobility. A slow and casting time would spell death to all casters if they choose to engage any auto attacking class.

(See what i did there)
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Well, this is all good feedback, but has anyone taken under the consideration that you're not supposed to solo warriors? I mean that would be a lazy decision (If they did let that slide) but it's a decision none the less. You all do know you're asking for a caster/wizard/necro etc.. to rise up against someone who one shots endermen? IMO, yes I do think that the caster classes need a well deserved buff, but to no means strong enough to use it on a dreadknight and put him in submission. Just my two cents.
 

jwplayer0

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Columbus, OH
Honestly, I reeeeeally want to say to give Wizards force push. Most people will argue it, but for 45 Mana it could be the move that either makes or breaks a Wizard in a fight. You see in countless movies Wizards and such having force like powers. Think about it, it wouldn't even be OP because of the mana cost. Mana costs on Wizards mean a hell of a lot more then on a melee class. 45 is a heavy price, but its high enough to keep you from using it to much.

I dont care what you say, but your not getting my forcepush :mad: its what makes Disciples unique compared to other melee classes.
 

HollowSith

Diamond
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Why shouldn't a Wizzard be able to solo warriors? Not saying we should, but why not? We are a PVP class just like Rogues and Warriors are. Are warriors supposed to come in a town of 8 and solo them all? No. We should be able to kill them if we play our cards right, keep our distance and play our class as we are supposed to; just as they are. Same as a Ninja or Thief should be able to kill one if they can sneak up and get the surprise on there enemy. Where did you get this "Warriors beat all" attitude?

What I am asking and frankly telling Kainzo, is that we need to be able to be offensively capable of defending our selves. This means that because of not having armour or any respectable amount of health, we need strong offensive ranged attacks to make the class capable of surviving in PVP combat. Kainzo knows this already, he isn't stupid. BUT, the warm up on Bolt, as-well as the other "moves" Wizards have, have severally limited it's damage output because of the vulnerability that "warm up times" place. On a fragile class like Wizard it makes it's own attacks to dangerous to use; If you can even manage to get them off.

Wizards should have the option of being better then other players if played right. This disables any chance of doing so. Just as every PVP class should have a fair chance of coming out on top. Hence, @Kainzo favourite word; Balance.
 
Top