Not a Bug Maim interrupts while slowing

[kenster1092]

Hello,

I do believe this is a bug:
I was a Paladin fighting against a Berserker, and while I was casting my Absolution, the Berserker maimed me and it disrupted the cast. I did /skill maim ? and it says "You maim your target, dealing # physical damage and slowing them for 2.5 seconds". The description never mentioned about interrupting casting.

Is this a probable bug, or Maim is supposed to interrupt along with slowing?

 

[pure_autism]

Maim is supposed to be an interrupt.

 

[Bingy1218]

Maim is supposed to be an interrupt.

Since when and why? We already have kick/bash why would we need another interrupt.
These "balance changes" are making berserker insanely op to be honest

 

[Ahrall]

Maim (both the pyro and the berserker variant) is a slow not an interrupt. If maim is interrupting either it was changed, bugged, or you are doing something wrong

 

[pure_autism]

Since when and why? We already have kick/bash why would we need another interrupt.
These "balance changes" are making berserker insanely op to be honest

Forcepull, Forcepush, and FlyingKick interrupt as well, but don't advertise that in the skill descriptions as far as I know. Maim has always interrupted casting, from my experience.

 

[kk0707]

Forcepull, Forcepush, and FlyingKick interrupt as well, but don't advertise that in the skill descriptions as far as I know. Maim has always interrupted casting, from my experience.

When I played pyro on live maim was only a slow it never interrupted a warm-up... However for the past few days or so on test maim would interrupt

 

[pure_autism]

When I played pyro on live maim was only a slow it never interrupted a warm-up... However for the past few days or so on test maim would interrupt

Now that you mention it, I haven't really tested this on live. All I'm certain of is that it's been like this on test for a long time. I do think it should interrupt, however - if you were maimed by a sharp axe, would you be able to continue casting a spell?

 

[yeelowsnow]

Now that you mention it, I haven't really tested this on live. All I'm certain of is that it's been like this on test for a long time. I do think it should interrupt, however - if you were maimed by a sharp axe, would you be able to continue casting a spell?

By that logic any damaging skills should interrupt casting, eh?

 

[Ahrall]

On live maim does not interrupt
Maim as an interrupt would be nice, but at that point we have bash with a different name.
Melee range slow is something that greatly helps Pyro and Zerker so personally I would rather keep the slow than replace it with an interrupt, but if it interrupted AND slowed that would be pretty cool

 

[LordZelkova]

On live maim does not interrupt
Maim as an interrupt would be nice, but at that point we have bash with a different name.
Melee range slow is something that greatly helps Pyro and Zerker so personally I would rather keep the slow than replace it with an interrupt, but if it interrupted AND slowed that would be pretty cool

And a little broken....... Warm ups already slow, so now your spell was interupted and youre still slowed, i mean it probably wouldnt be the world ender, but it would be a touch unfair, slowing and interupting at once....

 

[Delfofthebla]

I created Maim. Sorry, but it was always designed to be an interrupt + slow. And contrary to what people may think, it works the exact same way on every class that has the skill, and it has always done so. The damage and slow duration may vary, but the interrupt is present on all classes. Interrupts are coded directly into the skill, and this cannot be changed from class to class. If an ability interrupts for one class, it interrupts for all of them.

It was originally intended to be a Ranger only ability to give them a brief breather and distance themselves from their target, but was later added to most classes that uses axes to make up for a lack of basic melee skills on those classes (Pyro especially).

A lot of skills that interrupt do not state they do so in the description, but that's just how it is. They probably should state they do so in the description, but I had a lot of work on my plate at the time, so sorry for that. However I combed through all skills prior to havens launch, and removed / added all the interrupts myself. If a skill interrupts, it was intended to do so.

(Unless of course the skill was created within the last three-ish months, or it was created after this post.)


As an added bonus for those that may not believe me, it's important to note that not all skills are interruptable. Interrupts will often fail to interrupt on short casting abilities (such as spear), and any other ability that has been specifically marked for being unable to be interrupted. I can't say I remember any off-hand, but if there were any, it would likely be melee-based abilities like Superjump or Tremor. Keep these things in mind when testing interrupts for yourself.

 

[Dsawemd]

@Kainzo
For the purposes of Balance, we need to begin keeping a log of accurate skill information. Delf's above post shows that there is a surprisingly large burden of knowledge that is not being met by the playerbase, nor by some of the balance team (I did not know that Maim had a hidden interrupt, nor that some short warm-up spells are impossible to interrupt). We need to create a registry of up-to-date skills with correct information, as they are created. The wiki isn't enough, we need this info so we can help with Balance or so the playerbase can understand how they can utilize a class.

On a personal note, @Delfofthebla Any other hidden powers of skills that you coded that you would like to let the playerbase in on?

 

[Delfofthebla]

@Kainzo
For the purposes of Balance, we need to begin keeping a log of accurate skill information. Delf's above post shows that there is a surprisingly large burden of knowledge that is not being met by the playerbase, nor by some of the balance team (I did not know that Maim had a hidden interrupt, nor that some short warm-up spells are impossible to interrupt). We need to create a registry of up-to-date skills with correct information, as they are created. The wiki isn't enough, we need this info so we can help with Balance or so the playerbase can understand how they can utilize a class.

On a personal note, @Delfofthebla Any other hidden powers of skills that you coded that you would like to let the playerbase in on?

Well, things like stamina / mana costs and cooldowns aren't ever mentioned anywhere. Whether or not the skill is silenceable or interruptible, what type of damage it deals (physical / magic / dark / poison / fire / ect.) and probably much more I haven't been working with Heroes for a couple of months, so I'm a little hazy on that kind of stuff. I will say that the wiki does a good job of clearing a lot of that up, but some of it you just kinda have to get a feel for.

 

[Dsawemd]

1. Well, things like stamina / mana costs and cooldowns aren't ever mentioned anywhere.
2. Whether or not the skill is silenceable or interruptible, what type of damage it deals (physical / magic / dark / poison / fire / ect.) and probably much more I haven't been working with Heroes for a couple of months, so I'm a little hazy on that kind of stuff.
3. I will say that the wiki does a good job of clearing a lot of that up, but some of it you just kinda have to get a feel for.

1. Yes, I have often thought that resource costs and cooldowns are less than up-to-date, but the wiki mentions them.
2. TYPES OF DAMAGE BEYOND MAGIC/PHYSICAL???? News to me!!! Does type affect the damage at all (beyond magic/physical)?
3. HC shouldn't require players to "get a feel" for how the skills work to understand the mechanics through inference and deduction, and I think that a complete reference log for skills would be universally supported.

TBH I thought the wiki was doing a good job until I saw this thread, for Maim (a multi-class skill) to have a hidden interrupt is ridiculous, it needs to be acknowledged at some wiki or tooltip.

Any and ALL mechanics that have effects on PvP need to be known or at least logged somewhere public.

 

[Delfofthebla]

1. Yes, I have often thought that resource costs and cooldowns are less than up-to-date, but the wiki mentions them.
2. TYPES OF DAMAGE BEYOND MAGIC/PHYSICAL???? News to me!!! Does type affect the damage at all (beyond magic/physical)?
3. HC shouldn't require players to "get a feel" for how the skills work to understand the mechanics through inference and deduction, and I think that a complete reference log for skills would be universally supported.

TBH I thought the wiki was doing a good job until I saw this thread, for Maim (a multi-class skill) to have a hidden interrupt is ridiculous, it needs to be acknowledged at some wiki or tooltip.

Any and ALL mechanics that have effects on PvP need to be known or at least logged somewhere public.

Most of the "damage types" don't really mean anything though. All "sub types" are considered magic, and any physical skill typically just deals physical damage. It only comes into play with skills like Flameshield, which I don't think even exists anymore. (You should remember it as the old Pyromancer / Runeblade skill that blocked all fire damage)

The things you're requesting though Dsaw, take a lot of work, and a lot of time. I did everything in my power to improve the descriptions in game, but I am not perfect, and there was a point where there was just too much bullshit in the text, and it needed to be trimmed down. Witch also put forth more hours than you know ensuring that wiki was as perfect as possible. It's just that some stuff slips through the cracks, like the interrupts.

 

[Dsawemd]

Most of the "damage types" don't really mean anything though. All "sub types" are considered magic, and any physical skill typically just deals physical damage. It only comes into play with skills like Flameshield, which I don't think even exists anymore. (You should remember it as the old Pyromancer / Runeblade skill that blocked all fire damage)

The things you're requesting though Dsaw, take a lot of work, and a lot of time. I did everything in my power to improve the descriptions in game, but I am not perfect, and there was a point where there was just too much bullshit in the text, and it needed to be trimmed down. Witch also put forth more hours than you know ensuring that wiki was as perfect as possible. It's just that some stuff slips through the cracks, like the interrupts.

Flameshield is still in game.

I am not asking for ANY MORE WORK. I am asking that when you, Delf, and other coders make a skill, you make known to the public a short tooltip that includes ALL aspects of the skill.
edit: Just tell me in TS and I will write it down in the wiki or/and tell Witch... Let me know and I'll do it for all skills.

Frankly, I haven't taken this angle yet because I am not accusing you of malicious intent, but the fact that you were allowed to code hidden powers into skills for this server WHILE MAINTAINING A PVP PRESENCE IS EGREGIOUS. This is not something that can be allowed!!!!

 

[monkeyfatzer]

Flameshield is still in game.

I am not asking for ANY MORE WORK. I am asking that when you, Delf, and other coders make a skill, you make known to the public a short tooltip that includes ALL aspects of the skill.
edit: Just tell me in TS and I will write it down in the wiki or/and tell Witch... Let me know and I'll do it for all skills.

Frankly, I haven't taken this angle yet because I am not accusing you of malicious intent, but the fact that you were allowed to code hidden powers into skills for this server WHILE MAINTAINING A PVP PRESENCE IS EGREGIOUS. This is not something that can be allowed!!!!

Delf never even played berserker that much, I don't even know if he mastered it. I'd mess up on descriptions too if I had to basically create a class by myself and make all the skills.

 

[Dsawemd]

Delf never even played berserker that much, I don't even know if he mastered it. I'd mess up on descriptions too if I had to basically create a class by myself and make all the skills.

Once again, I am definitely not accusing him of maliscious intent. I am not saying that the incomplete knowledge at a public level is even the Coder's fault.

I am not even saying that Delf is at any fault for Maim, which he says he coded. BUT The Coders (or whoever has a COMPLETE knowledge of the skill) NEEDS to pass it on to the public.

The lack of knowledge is especially worrisome because Coders who are also PvPers could abuse a similar hidden mechanic without it being noticed or utilized by other players, even those who use the same spec.
I doubt this has ever happened; this could not be done sneakily, because Upper Staff has a log of the skills code and the server code. Despite Upper Staff and Coders having access to info about hidden power for skills, I still propose the only fair method is to let the playerbase know about all aspects of all skills.

 

[TheYeti]

@Dsawemd or any of the @Wiki Team I am very approachable and more than willing to help you guys out if you just ask me with giving you guys information about how skills and other code based stuff works and numbers involved that I have access to.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

@Dsawemd or any of the @Wiki Team I am very approachable and more than willing to help you guys out if you just ask me with giving you guys information about how skills and other code based stuff works and numbers involved that I have access to.

Thanks Yeti, I reckon we'll be taking you up on that offer!